Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Before we dive into our discussion about disruption, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share with us the backstory about what brought you to your specific career path?
I was hired by Mikhail Baryshnikov at the age of 17 to join American Ballet Theatre (ABT) from The School of Classical Ballet, the training school for ABT created by Mr. Baryshnikov, and was one of only seven female students and five male students. Later I went on to dance with the San Francisco Ballet and the Zurich Ballet, Mr. Baryshnikov’s White Oak Dance Project, and in multiple collaborations with opera/theater director Peter Sellars before co-founding OtherShore which I co-directed for six years. My experience in ballet, contemporary, and modern dance enabled me to enjoy a diverse international career for over 20-years that spanned across artistic disciplines.
Upon retiring from dancing, I returned to school and pursued a Bachelor of Business Administration (BBA) in Accounting and Business Communication from Zicklin School of Business, CUNY Baruch College. I was 42 when I graduated as the Salutatorian of my class. After graduation, I was hired by Goldman Sachs’ Finance Division where I focused on regulatory capital requirements. Simultaneously, I obtained an MA in Arts Administration, eventually returning to the dance world as the finance manager at Mark Morris Dance Group and then program manager at New York City Center. From 2018 to 2022, I served as the Chief Executive and Artistic Officer at Kaatsbaan Cultural Park, a 153-acre artist sanctuary located in Tivoli, NY. Here I led the successful rebranding and revitalization of the 30+ year organization, bringing it to award-winning status for its significant artistic and economic contributions to the Hudson Valley. In October 2022, I joined Baryshnikov Arts as its new Executive Director and was elected President in 2024.
What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
Our Founder and Artistic Director is undoubtedly one of the most significant figures in dance – as well as arts and culture – both historically and geographically. His purpose in creating Baryshnikov Arts stems from his vision and life’s work. He has been a significant force, leader, mentor, and role model for decades, and Baryshnikov Arts will continue to level up into an artistic and business force with a worthy mission that uplifts and serves.
Baryshnikov Arts is more than a single ‘place;’ it is an international community headquartered in NYC, one of the most artistically and economically interesting cities in the world. Now is the perfect time to further strengthen our brand and get the word out about our spaces, our programming, and our future vision. Alongside our current programming, which has incredible artistic integrity, we are looking to further diversify our offerings, develop more interdisciplinary collaborations, and broaden our audiences and supporters. What is so wonderful about eclectic programming is that audiences may suddenly find themselves falling in love with an art form that they had previously not been exposed to or thought they’d be interested in. For example, people may come for a music concert, but they’ll stay for a dance show or culinary event. We value the potential to bring people together in unusual ways across the dance, theater, performance art, poetry, fashion, film, food, and music worlds. This sparks new interests and relationships, and I find this truly exciting.
One of the things that dancers have always regarded with such awe and respect about Misha, as Baryshnikov is affectionately referred to, and always distinguished him from other dancers is his ability to transcend the boundaries of artistic disciplines. The fact that many types of artists and people from other industries have been interested in working with him paved the way for future dancers to do the same, which we now enthusiastically witness more broadly. I think one of the most exciting things about our programming is the emphasis placed on cross-discipline collaborations and our curiosity about bringing seemingly unlikely artists together to create something undiscovered or beautifully new. This is something that we will focus on and continue to hone as a core value in 2024 and beyond. The important work that Baryshnikov Arts does, which includes meaningfully supporting artists’ most ambitious creative endeavors, fiercely protecting artistic freedom, sharing transformative experiences, and providing a sense of belonging and community, moves the world forward and changes lives. This is what we strive to facilitate.
You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
Resilience and perseverance
Ability to adapt and reinvent oneself
Conviction with open mindedness
Throughout my dance career, I never imagined myself transitioning from the artistic side to the business side. I did not attend college until I was 38 years old, as working with ABT was a full-time job while I was still just in high school. Going to undergraduate business school at that age and graduating at 42 was not something I had planned. It was humbling to go from the top of one’s field to a completely new world where I knew nothing and was twice the age of those around me. But it also gave me a real sense of accomplishment as it was so far removed from anything I ever thought I could do. Persevering in this endeavor led me to a life I never imagined for myself but one in which I am now so grateful to have. I am thrilled to be seeing many dancers transitioning into new, exciting, and fulfilling second careers post life as a professional dancer, and it is heartening to witness. There was a time not too long ago that dancers retired from the stage in their mid to late 30’s or early 40’s and they faced a void of uncertainty without opportunity or skills beyond dance technique and artistry. The internet, combined with the acceptance of older students seeking a second career following a college education, has been a game changer for retired dancers. Additionally, the growing acceptance of women – and especially those of color- to take on leadership roles is encouraging and long overdue.
What also proved invaluable to me on my personal journey was my family’s understanding of the importance of being adaptable and resilient, which they passed on to me. I was adopted from an orphanage in South Korea by two incredible people, as were my sister and brother. We grew up in Minnesota with a wonderful and very mixed family hailing from former Yugoslavia, Vietnam, and Wisconsin! The necessity to adapt to my environment was instilled in me from a very young age. The life stories of each person in my family could be a book or a movie. I can’t imagine what my life would have been without the diverse influence and inspiration I received from them.
Leadership often entails making difficult decisions or hard choices between two apparently good paths. Can you share a story with us about a hard decision or choice you had to make as a leader? I’m curious to understand how these challenges have shaped your leadership.
During the pandemic, the arts organization I was running at the time (which was not Baryshnikov Arts) had to make the decision whether to shut its doors, reduce staff, or try to rapidly go digital with minimal time, knowledge, or resources. This is what many if not most arts organizations had to do to survive. But instead, we choose that time to grow, expand, develop, and create in-person experiential programming. It shaped my style of leadership very much in that this global crisis changed the world in a matter of days – supporting decisions that required new ways of thinking on a very significant level. I have always believed throughout my life that the impossible is possible – and so this crisis was actually an opportunity to activate a vision and dream with more acceptance than perhaps if one were operating under ‘normal conditions.’ I expand further on this below.
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. Let’s begin with a basic definition so that all of us are on the same page. In the context of a business, what exactly is “Disruption”?
The concept of disruption often surfaces in the context of defining global trends. It is synonymous with breaking through the clutter and doing the unconventional, most often tied to a major change or transformation that changes the way people think or the way in which things are done.
The arts non-profit world was turned on its head when the pandemic struck, and it made the cultural sector face some long-standing challenges and issues. Additionally, with the rise and ease of digital and internet use, entrepreneurship has developed rapidly and extensively in the arts world.
Interestingly enough, the first time a company I led found a way to break from the convention was during the pandemic when all arts and cultural institutions closed their physical doors, shrunk operations, and went digital. Yet this company expanded and grew, and found a way to create pandemic-safe in-person performances and events by moving everything from the conventional indoor theater experience to the outdoor countryside for unique experiential programming. People were craving human experience and connection at this time, and we were able to deliver those sorely needed experiences for both artists and for audiences. Now you find so many arts organizations which historically used indoor theaters finding new unique ways to have outdoor performances and programming ‘experiences,’ thereby transforming what outdoors can be for the arts. And in an even larger sense innovative with regard to how arts can be created, presented, and shared with communities and constituents beyond what was once considered.
How do you perceive the role of ‘disruption’ within your industry, and how have you personally embraced it? Is it a necessity, a strategy, or something else entirely in your view?
The pandemic allowed for new perspectives to be recognized, as everyone’s daily lives and the world around them changed. There were – and still are – challenges for many arts organizations and businesses during this period of uncertainty and loss. And a need to pivot from what has historically been considered ‘normal’ operations to something that is more relevant and accessible in its service to its various constituents such as artists, audiences, students, economic initiatives, etc. One of the primary outcomes of the pivot our organization went through was to look at our operations and realize that a part of our mission had yet to be fulfilled, which was that of a ‘cultural park’ rather than just a venue where artists came to perform and audiences came to sit and watch a performance.
This was the first time that this organization presented programming that took place outside with an ‘experiential’ side and now this has become part of their new normal. By realizing the scope of what arts can provide – for artists, audiences, and the economy – the concept of unique partnerships is now in play. Baryshnikov Arts, the organization I currently lead, has created programming initiatives that now take place in this unique countryside environment that has endless capacity for growth (both artistically and economically,) including residency fellowships, outdoor concerts, and summer festivals. Baryshnikov Arts just received a 2-million-dollar grant from the Mellon Foundation to support a two-year music festival in this idyllic countryside location– and it will support this new music initiative as Baryshnikov Arts continues to further commit to elevating and sharing the stories of artists of diverse cultures and histories.
What ‘theater’ and the arts have become is something experiential rather than stagnant. This is what audiences are looking for – genuine interaction and communication. I think it is just wonderful and it’s so exciting to continue thinking about how to innovate and disrupt in this way.
What lessons have you learned from challenging conventional wisdom, and how have those lessons shaped your leadership style?
Just because something has been done successfully one way historically doesn’t mean there might not be new ways to consider that are more in-line with what is needed in the present. The perfect example is the now mythological story of Blockbuster and Netflix.
And of course, in reality ‘overnight success’ for most people and companies is years and years of work and ideas, inherent with multiple successes and failures. So, entrepreneurship and disruption is something that I feel is developed over time. It does not happen in an instant but rather something that develops by gaining an understanding from a myriad of experiences. Then, with the right timing, finding a way make something happen. There is a quote that I find to be so true, which is something along the lines of ‘the harder you work the luckier you seem to get.’
Success is when preparedness and opportunity collide. To be successful at any age, but especially as the years go by, is to never give up. It is to believe, with conviction, in the journey and not the destination.
Disruptive ideas often meet resistance. Could you describe a time when you faced significant pushback for a disruptive idea? How did you navigate the opposition, and what advice would you give to others in a similar situation?
Change is often considered risky, expensive, uncertain, and fraught with a fear of more work. Being stable and conventional can provide comfort. But many companies that are transformative and benefit society most are often given way to being disruptive and path-breaking. And often this is out of necessity as a response to what is going on in the world and what is seemingly ‘suddenly’ needed. The lesson learned from this is to listen to the world, listen to what is going on, and always think about what you or your company can do to address the needs of your constituents. Can anyone really remember what life was like before the internet or smart phones? My entire dance career occurred at a time when there was no internet and no smart phones. These things drastically changed the arts, both for companies and artists as individuals. We have to keep asking ourselves what the world will look like in the next 5-10 years and how can we support the needs that will present themselves.
To that end, nothing is accomplished alone and you need a team that understands the vision and what it takes to accomplish that vision. Working together as a team is so important, which makes it vital to have a team that is open to disruption. This can be challenging in and of itself so it is crucial to build the right team that will stick with you and the vision through ups and downs, and the inevitable successes and failures that will arise along the way. It is impossible to see disruption succeed without a team that is willing to face the most difficult challenges together and yet still persevere through the ‘muck’ and make it through to the other side where the dream becomes reality. And that reality redefines, transforms, and changes for the better your entire sector, and perhaps the world.
What are your “Five Innovative Approaches We Are Using To Disrupt Our Industry”?
- Experiential performing arts
- Looking at earned income potential vs philanthropy (for profit model for non-profits)
- Unconventional partnerships
- Removing barriers between disciplines / sectors
- Understanding new forms of leadership that are not afraid of uncertainty and can help organizations move through turbulent and unpredictable times with no playbook
Looking back at your career, in what ways has being disruptive defined or redefined your path? What surprises have you encountered along the way?
Taking risks with successful results proved to open up so many new opportunities for me. I would not be where I am now had I not strayed from the conventional and safe path. And much, if not all the ‘disruptive’ acts, came from necessity. So, understanding and remaining grateful throughout, which can appear to be an impossible challenge now, may be an enormous opportunity for growth, reinvention, and fulfillment.
Beyond professional accomplishments, how has embracing disruption affected you on a personal level?
As President and Executive Director of Baryshnikov Arts, I bring a unique background and perspective – that might be considered unique for arts leaders. I was first a professional dancer, then went to work in corporate finance before returning to the arts on the administrative side. And along the way I developed decades of experience and relationships. I now realize that in my own way I was a disruptor in the arts community by going down this atypical career path following my career in dance. Those seemingly disparate experiences have now come together and guided me to being open to diverse perspectives and understanding the business of arts. And doing so holistically not just from the arts side or the business side.
In your role as a C-suite leader, driving innovation and embracing disruption, what thoughts or concerns keep you awake at night? How do these reflections guide your decisions and leadership?
I am constantly looking for opportunities for truly unprecedented growth that are in line with how we see arts and culture in NYC and around the world. We are ripe for a revitalization post-pandemic. Baryshnikov Arts is now prepared to not only continue being an important part of the artistic landscape, but to step forward to be a leader, defining what innovation in the arts can look like. We are focused on what it means to support a diverse range of artists at all stages of their careers; how we can bring in audiences and supporters and provide them with transformative experiences worthy of their time and support; and ways to create meaningful and mutually beneficial partnerships aligned with our mission. And to support all this requires finding a way to break through the conventional arts nonprofit model. How to find a sustainable model that doesn’t rely almost entirely on philanthropy/donation. This is what I have been spending most of my time thinking about because we are on the cusp of figuring this out.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I am not so sure about that. But my heart is in the arts – so the work that my team and I are doing now feels good, and the genuine hope is that it brings joy and an opportunity for true human connection and experience in a way that truly only art can bring. No matter where or what your situation or environment may be, arts are a part of the human condition, and everyone should have access and opportunity to experience and participate.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Our website:www.baryshnikovarts.org
Socials:
Instagram: @baryshnikovartscenter
Facebook: @baryshnikovarts
LinkedIn: @baryshnikovarts
X: @baryshnikovarts
Thank you for the time you spent sharing these fantastic insights. We wish you only continued success in your great work!